Page Two with Leia Talon, Novel & Game Author

Welcome to Write to Read podcast,

a page in the life of an author.

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I'm Liv Macy, and these are my pages.

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This is page two.

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And I cannot wait for you to hear

my conversation this week with

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Leia Talon, who is in the middle of

writing her second hearts choice game.

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I also want to say thank

you for being here.

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Uh, because, , editing and

recording and rerecording has been.

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A little frustrating at times.

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Because this is all new to me, obviously.

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The technology is new.

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The platforms that I'm using are new and

the time that it has taken me to do some

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of these interviews and the episodes.

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And all that it entails has been.

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Quite an experience.

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Um, But I just want to say thank you

because it makes it worthwhile to

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know that you were there listening.

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That you are wanting to

spend 45 minutes or so.

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Of your precious time to.

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Listen to me and listen to the authors

that come on here and to talk about

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their books or to be interviewed.

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About their lives or their experiences.

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And yeah.

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Thank you.

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I hope you enjoy this episode.

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And I hope you happy, wonderful week.

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this week's bit of randomness.

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is going to make you laugh.

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at me.

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I was at a doctor's

appointment this past week.

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And the nurse tech asked me.

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About a timeline.

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I mentioned that I am 42.

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And so it must have been

X amount of years ago.

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At the very strange look to her face.

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I kind of, you know, Raised an eyebrow.

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And she said, . Did you say you're 42.

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And I thought about it for a split

second and said, yes, I am . And

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here mind you, I'm thinking.

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You know, she's maybe going to go,

wow, you look great for your age or.

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Something along those lines because.

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When those types of things happen

to me, I default to my ego.

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And I think to myself, There's

no way I could have screwed up.

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It must be, it must be a

compliment coming something.

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I think that's a defense mechanism,

but that's neither here nor there.

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And so I confirmed that I am indeed 42.

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And the nurse.

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The nurse tech proceeds to tell me that.

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I'm not 42.

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And.

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I kind of laughed and thought to myself,

Did she just tell me I'm I'm not my age.

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And so.

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She says you're, you're

not, you're not 42.

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I've looked at your date of

birth when I was entering your

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information into the screen.

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And you're not 42.

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And so I think back real quick,

because I have a fall birthday and I'm

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thinking, okay, well, That must be it.

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I must be 43 and I just turned

43 and I just don't remember.

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You know, to update myself when I'm

saying I'm 42 all year long, you

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know, there's always that time period.

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And so.

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I say that to her.

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And she looks at me even more strangely

and says, ah, No, ma'am you are 44.

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I'm not exactly sure how long

I've been telling people.

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I'm 42.

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And I'm not exactly sure why, because

I've never been one of the women

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who, you know, stops aging at 28.

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I've never been that lucky.

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And so.

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Uh, I'm not really sure.

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What happened?

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And I can only default to

the fact that during COVID.

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I seem to have lost a couple of years

and that's what I'm sticking to.

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So if you're.

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Laughing at me hysterically.

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You're welcome.

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And if not, I'm sorry, we

probably don't have the same

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type of humor and that's okay.

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Because that's what

makes the world go round.

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Coming up is my favorite segment.

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Which is of course.

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Beyond the blurb.

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I'm always thrilled to have authors

come on and talk about their book

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because it gives them a platform.

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To let people know that maybe

haven't heard of them or

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haven't heard of their book.

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And let them know and share.

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The only caveat of course is,

is that I cannot, , endorse

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everybody because I can't.

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Read everybody's books ahead of time.

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There's just no way, unfortunately.

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, though, I wish I could.

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I wish I could clone myself

and have enough time to have

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oneself just sitting and reading.

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And so

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Please welcome these authors.

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And I hope as always that

you find something amazing.

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hello there, I am Shelby Storm, author

of Forever After All, which is book

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one in the Mercenary Ranch series.

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It is a small town

romance, uh, rodeo romance.

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cowboy romance, western romance,

whatever you want to call it.

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It hits all those boxes.

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It has a little bit of spice in it,

depending on your spice rating, somewhere

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between a 2 and a 3, I would say.

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, We have all the feels, a rollercoaster

of emotions go through, um,

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you're going to go through.

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, it follows Charlie Evans, , who

just left her small town five

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years ago and is now forced to come

back, , with the death of her sister.

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And she has just been named the

sole guardian of her nephew.

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And She's trying to figure out what

she's going to do with her life, as

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well as take care of this five year old

who she has never met in person before.

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, and then, as all of her life

comes crumbling down, she meets

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Yes, you did hear that right.

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, he is a true southern gentleman.

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He's sweet as pie.

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He is good looking and he is

just as perfect as can be.

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The only catch, he is a rodeo cowboy

and she has sworn off rodeo cowboys.

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for the rest of her life.

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Um, so basically, she

has to make a decision.

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Is she going to let her past haunt her?

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Or is she going to take a

chance on right or right?

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Uh, that is the big question.

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That is basically, uh, what

Forever After All is about.

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It is, , it was a number one,

um, bestseller in rodeos.

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, it is currently still in the

top 100, , for that category.

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And, if you are looking for something

that is a bit spicy, isn't something

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that's going to be too inappropriate to

read around your kids, um, and is just

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a really good feel good story, then

take a chance on it and pick it up.

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You might enjoy.

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Hi, I'm Peggy Jager.

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I write romances about strong women,

the families who support them, and

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the men who can't live without them.

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I also am part of the Dickens

Holiday Romance Series.

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My addition to the series this year is a

book called Don't Mess with the Mistletoe.

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It takes place in the tiny New England

fictional town of Dickens, New Hampshire.

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Although, it's probably New

England, but I say New Hampshire,

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because that's where I live.

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The story evolves around Michael

Charles, who is the third child

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in the Charles adoptive family.

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He's a pilot, and he's home for

vacation for the Christmas holidays.

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His two older sisters are very pregnant

and they bring him into the fold to help

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their mother run their family diner.

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Amy Charles is tired.

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She's been running the diner for

50 years and she needs some help.

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So Michael volunteers for a month.

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Little does he know how much his life

is going to change in that month.

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He meets a widowed waitress with a child

who he falls head over heels in love with.

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But there are complications.

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She has a tortured past, as does he.

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And he's not a permanent kind of a guy.

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But Julia Maryland, a waitress,

is a permanent kind of girl.

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When a family emergency makes

Michael rethink his non permanent

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lifestyle, sparks ensue and he

has to come to a decision about

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what his life is going to be.

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If you like small town and small town

boy romances, rom coms, family, a little

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bit of angst, a little bit of sweet with

heat, and a whole lot of love, Don't

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Mess With The Mistletoe could be for you.

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Hi, I am Laura Navarre, and I am

going to be talking to you today

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about my spicy paranormal adult

academy, Why Choose Romance, Gemini

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Queen, which is the first in the

four book Dark Witch Academy series.

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My book is about Zara Gemini,

who's actually a cat burglar.

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And when the story opens, she's

in Singapore pulling off a heist.

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And in mid heist, she gets kidnapped

and whisked away to the dark

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witch academy, where she discovers

that she's actually the next.

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queen of the witching world, which

is a gig that she didn't ask for

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and that she refuses to accept.

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But unfortunately, the four sexy

warlocks that rule the school

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just won't take no for an answer.

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And so Zara has to learn to

control her very terrifying magic.

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She has to deal with these

four enemy bully warlocks who

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are, of course, sexy as fuck.

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And through the course of the book, she

discovers that these so called enemies are

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actually all together, and by the end of

the book, she's together with them, too.

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So that's the start of the

series, and it is very spicy.

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It is very shifty.

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It is very wild and witchy and why choosy.

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So I hope you check it out.

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Uh, I'm on Amazon.

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You can read the first three books

in the series, uh, in ebook or print

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and the audio books are coming.

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So hope you enjoy it.

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And this is the part I've been

dreading all week because.

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My author writing update should be.

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A little bit heavier on the actually have

done a lot of writing part and I have not.

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I have not been procrastinating.

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I have been busy doing other things.

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I had a bunch of PR boxes book

boxes that needed to go out.

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Um, on this coming week.

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And I did some prepping for this

podcast and I did some prepping.

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For book four because I am trying to

actually plot a little bit more than

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pants, which is what I usually do.

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And, um, Yeah, it's not going as

well as I would've liked it to go.

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So I kind of am giving up on

the plotting ahead of time.

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Option.

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Which does mean that I have to do a little

bit more writing this week than I had

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originally planned to, which is going to

be difficult with the holidays coming up.

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At the end of this week.

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And I still have to wrap

presents because I have not yet.

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And.

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Yeah.

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So, I mean, I kind of feel like this is

going to be, you guys are all going to

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be my accountability partners because.

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I was literally dreading.

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Recording the session because I,

I did not want to see, like I was.

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Not doing what I should be

doing, which is writing.

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Um, So I am.

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Crossing my fingers and

hopefully we'll have.

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A much better update next week.

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This episode.

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Has been brought to you by me.

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Because I do not have

paying customers yet.

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Vying for ad space in my episode.

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I know, shocking.

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Sometimes I really do wonder why I record

some of these things and this should

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be a blooper, but it's not going to be,

it's going to go right in here because.

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It's real.

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And this is.

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The space for ad space that I.

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Don't have anyone paying

for, so here I am.

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Brought to you by.

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Liv Macy.

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Do I talk about myself

in the third person?

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No, that's weird.

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I'm not talking about myself.

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And the third person.

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Okay.

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This, uh, this episode, page two

has been sponsored by myself.

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So, you know, Uh, by my books and.

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That's about all the adding

I'm going to do here.

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And of course, if you should, so choose.

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I too want to have ad space.

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In the middle of my podcast.

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You can sign up for that on

my website, I have a page for.

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Uh, the podcast and all the

episodes that have aired as well as.

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Uh, Google forms and documents

that you can fill out.

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If you are interested in doing a book

spotlight, if you are interested in doing

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an interview and if you are interested in.

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Paying for an ad in sponsoring an episode.

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As always you can follow me on

social media at live Macy author.

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And on my website@www.live macy.com.

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Hi, Leia.

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Thank you so much for stopping

by and chatting with me.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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Of course.

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So can you tell me a little

bit about Hearts Choice?

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I can.

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So Hearts Choice is the romance

division of Choice of Games, which is

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an interactive fiction , company, it's

really interesting, , to me because

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it's text based interactive fiction.

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It's a game, it's like a choose your

own path novel, where your choices make

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the difference in how the story goes.

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And Hearts Choice is unique in

that it is the romance division.

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So you're getting your happily

ever after with whichever romance

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option you choose in the game.

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And all of the Hearts Choice

games that I have played have

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different romance options.

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So you can play multiple times and,

, invest in different romances as well

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as adventures , Really, I, I've really

enjoyed all the writing of the games

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that I have read on Hearts Choice.

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It's a fun medium , as a storyteller,

and it's a really fun medium as a reader.

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Is Hearts Choice for kids or for adults?

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That is for adults.

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It is, uh, some of the games

are 18 some, it, it's romance.

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So it, I would say 18 My games are

definitely 18 even though, um, all of

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the scenes are, have options to opt out.

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Awesome.

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Okay, so how do you, how, I mean, I know

you in the writing world, so tell me

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how do you get into something like that

for anybody who's listening who, you

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know, either writes or plays and wants

to write games or is a writer who's

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interested in heading into that path?

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Yeah, so there are a lot of

different interactive fiction

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companies I'm not familiar with.

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The entire spectrum of what

interactive fiction offers.

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I'm much more familiar with Heart's

Choice and the Choice of Games platforms.

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Um, but it is much bigger.

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I just want to mention that.

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If somebody's interested in getting into

interactive fiction, I mean, my first

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recommendation would be to go play some

games and see what you like and what you

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don't like and how you think you might

add your own unique, , voice to The genre,

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, so choice of games that is like the parent

company, they actually have another.

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Um, division called Hosted Games, and

that is for anybody can go and write

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a game and it can be one of the hosted

games, , that one isn't contracted.

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So I'm a contracted

writer for Heart's Choice.

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I, , submitted writing to them,

said, Hey, I'd love to write for you.

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Pitched a few concepts.

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They picked one of my concepts

and that turned into, , my

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first release, which came out.

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This year, , Their Majesty's

Pleasure is the title of that.

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, But before that, I hadn't really

done much in interactive fiction.

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I played a couple of different games,

, more on linear models , of different, uh,

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not Hearts Choice and Choice of Games.

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And, and what I mean by linear is, , there

weren't as many branches on the game, the

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interactive fiction that I had played.

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Mm hmm.

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Whereas Hearts Choice and Choice of Games

really focus on the player character

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having agency, and the agency, the

choices that you make as the player

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character, um, that affects stats, and

those stats, , those make the difference

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in how the story unfolds, I mean, not

just the stats, your choices make the

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difference in how the story unfolds,

but the stats affect, , what happens.

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In the game and there's like testing

choices that come in a little bit later

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in the games and sometimes you pass

the test and sometimes you fail and

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there's always interesting things that

happen in that, , there's, it's just

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a really fun rabbit hole to dive down.

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That, yeah, I mean, it sounds

like really like an awesome.

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Okay.

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So for me, it doesn't sound like I,

I have like, I have this vision of

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something and I, I can't seem to.

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Like veer off.

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If I veer off into something,

I tend to forget to the

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original, like what I'm doing.

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So I think that's an amazing,

uh, like skill to have.

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, me personally, I just, I, I, I don't

have those skills and I really wish I

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did because I think that it makes it, um.

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Intriguing, like, like to be

able to, instead of just one

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world, you have all these worlds

that you can build and get into.

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And I feel like your brain is so

complex and , so, I don't know.

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It's, I think it's incredible.

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Um, well, thank you.

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I.

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I think it's incredible too.

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I mean, honestly, as I was, as I

was writing my last game, I was

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in awe and sometimes stupefied by

what my brain had to go through.

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Um, I, it took me my whole first

game to really get a handle on it.

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And just to throw out some word

count numbers there, my first

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game came in at 225, 000 words.

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Play through is closer

to 50 or 60,000 words.

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Wow.

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So when you're playing, you're

reading like a novela or

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short novel worth of story.

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Um, when you're writing, you're writing so

many different scenes or the same scene in

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different ways with different characters.

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Um, and you have to be careful about how

many branches you make because you have

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to follow all of those branches through.

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Right.

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Uh, so now I, I.

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Uh, I have a, I've been contracted

to write a second game, which,

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yay, I'm so excited about.

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I know.

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Congratulations.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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It's really fun.

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And after writing the first game,

the second game, like the process for

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me is so much more enjoyable because

now I actually know what I'm doing.

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Yeah.

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I really didn't in the first game.

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I just kind of flew by the seat of

my pants, um, but I made it work

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and players have really enjoyed it.

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, I think that kind of goes with

anybody hand in hand for writers.

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Like you write your first, second,

sometimes third, fourth, fifth book

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before you really kind of get into

streamlining a process for yourself.

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Um, for not even just efficiency, but

like just to get it done and accomplished

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and meet your end goal, I guess.

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I agree.

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And, and I used to be a pantser

in that I didn't outline.

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I just started writing and woo,

whatever came, came, um, with.

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With games, with interactive fiction,

you really don't want to do that, you

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know, it's, it's not a good way to go,

uh, in my personal opinion, um, having

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an outline, you know where you're

going, you're not going to get too many

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branches, , that are completely out of

control, and that's been a big shift for

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me as a writer, is having this outline

process, and I go back and forth with

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my editor until we're happy with it,

before I even start writing the game.

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Okay.

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So I guess you're, you're doing

the whole plotting beforehand.

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I'm writing a thorough outline,

but there's still tons of surprises

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for me as I get into the writing.

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Like there's, I still start

writing and hey, this is happening.

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Okay, let's go with it.

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, so it's not like I've given up

all of the fun of pantsing, which

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is that surprise of, hey, look

what my characters are doing now.

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Okay.

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I had no idea they were going to do that.

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, there's still plenty of that happening

for me, which I, I really find enjoyable.

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Yeah, I don't think, I feel like

I would be stifled , creatively if

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I couldn't, if I had to stick to

something like that, even, and I, and

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I know that I'm a pantser as well.

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So I know that not all plotters

are like, okay, it has to be

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this way, but that's how I feel.

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Like, I feel like if I'm plotting

something, it's almost set in stone.

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And then I.

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I kind of come to a wall and

I'm like, how do I get there

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and how do I move past that?

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I, I just, I guess I just have that

either it's yet another skill that

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I haven't learned or, um, I'm just,

I feel like I'm just not capable of

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plotting out and still moving forward.

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I mean, we each have our own process.

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I think, um, doing interactive fiction

and working with my editor, Abby Trevor

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has really helped me to learn how to

outline and how to use an outline as.

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Um, as a tool rather than

something that's holding me back.

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Uh, it, it is really helpful

in interactive fiction.

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I need to know where I'm going.

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I need to know what are the key points in

each chapter that I'm going to focus on.

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And I have to know the end states.

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Because there, I'll, I will

write, well, let's see.

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In this, in, in Their Majesty's

Pleasure, there are five love interests.

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There are three male love interests and

two female love interests and four out

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of the five are cool with polyamory.

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So that is seven endings that I wrote

just for the romance part and then there

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are the political and um, and world.

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Uh, adventure, like the aspects of it.

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Yeah, the aspects, the,

the, the conclusions.

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Thank you.

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That's okay.

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But my fingers work better than my, um,

than my mouth when I'm looking for words.

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Um, so there are all of

these different end states.

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That I have to know that I'm aiming

for before I start so that I can make

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sure that I cover all of the plot

that gets us to those end states.

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Again, I think that is an incredible

skill and I am so impressed.

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So impressed.

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I struggle writing one,

one book with the arc.

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and of course you have

written books beforehand.

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You're self published as well, correct?

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Yes.

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, I have a romanticy duet, which is kind

of like a cross between Outlander and the

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Time Traveler's Wife and Marvel's Thor.

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, the first book is called

, Falling Through the Weaving.

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And there I've written, um, so I have

that Romantici duet and, um, I have quite

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a few manuscripts that are unpublished.

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So there was a lot of growing as a

writer involved with that process.

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So that really helped me to get

to the point where I was ready

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to take on an interactive fiction

story, uh, and I mean, I, I was.

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It's contracted by Heart's

Choice because of that writing.

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Um, one of the samples that I

provided to them was the first chapter

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of Falling Through the Weaving.

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And they said, yeah,

pitch me some concepts.

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And I'm so glad that they liked the

fantasy concept that I pitched because

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fantasy is really my wheelhouse.

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That's awesome.

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Now having the experience of Hart's

Choice and the plotting experience, um,

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do you think you're going to go back to

those unpublished manuscripts and now

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apply the knowledge that you've used?

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Are you just going to eventually move

forward or do you just want to stay

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with writing, um, like games or what

are your, what are your future plans?

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Oh, I have such big plans.

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Um, I'm so excited.

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I love big plans.

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That's great.

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I'm so excited about, well, what,

what happened as I was writing this

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last game is I realized that the world

that I created in Their Majesty's

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Pleasure actually could connect with

the world that I had written in one of

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my favorite unpublished manuscripts.

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And so what I started, um, doing was

Letting the story evolve so that there was

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crossover in the characters, so that there

were different romances between these

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different key characters that would take,

uh, that would, that would take a series

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to go through, um, you know, focusing on

this, these These characters romance in

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this book and the next book, you know,

there's another pair but so I took a

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little break between my first wrapping up

my first game and starting the second game

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and Adapted the first game into a novel a

novel and a half The second part of that

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is still in progress But it's been so much

fun because in the game I'm a little bit

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limited in How far, how much detail I can

put into some things because the player

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character, I'm not the one saying who

this player character is, the player is.

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So if you're playing the game, you get to

decide what the character's personality

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is like and what their backstory

is, which is super fun as a player.

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Um, but in the novel, I got to make

up that main character and give her

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all of the traits that I wanted to.

456

It's, it's interesting to me the freedoms

that are provided in interactive fiction

457

where I can write, um, I can write for

a player who is coming from a male,

458

female, or non binary perspective, um,

any preference of romance, and, and

459

any preference of heat level as well.

460

Whereas in the novel, I'm like, okay,

well, I'm going to have it slow burn up

461

until this point, and then it's gonna be

super spicy, and that's just how it is.

462

Whereas if somebody's playing the game,

and they like it super spicy, they can

463

have that throughout the entire game,

or if they want to avoid those scenes

464

entirely, they have that option, and

there are really sweet scenes that are

465

interspersed throughout, um, So, yeah, two

different mediums, two different ways to

466

approach it, but, uh, coming back to my

big plans, um, what I would really like to

467

see, you know, a few years into the future

is a series of books that are all in the

468

same world as the games that I'm writing.

469

Um, and I just, I'm so excited about

the games and I'm so excited about

470

the books and I just need enough time

to actually write them all, all out.

471

Oh, I feel like that's like the, uh,

writer's bane of existence, time.

472

Yes.

473

Time and productivity, like actual,

yeah, reasonable productivity.

474

Yes.

475

. Do you plan on self publishing

those, or are you going to try

476

to get agented for the novels?

477

Um, I'm definitely, I have

been sending out some queries.

478

I'm not pushing too hard right

now because I am focusing on the

479

second game that I'm writing.

480

If I find that there is traditional

publishing interest, Yay!

481

Um, if not, that's okay.

482

I know how to self publish.

483

I've done it before.

484

I think self publishing, indie publishing,

is an incredible path and, um, becoming

485

more and more valid as the years go by.

486

Um, so I'm really open to it at this

point, but I do want to wait until I

487

have at least the first three or four

books finished before I go forward.

488

Are you thinking of, um, Is it possible

to have the same fan base as the

489

people who are interested in the games?

490

Or do you think you'd have to kind of

search for a new, uh, reader group?

491

I think there's some crossover,

uh, but I do think that there

492

would be a very different market

for the novels versus the games.

493

Um, some people like interactive,

interactive fiction and books, obviously.

494

Um, but the other issue is in the game.

495

Again, you can play male, female, or non

binary, whereas the novels, I'm really

496

writing from a female perspective because

that's where I'm coming from, even

497

though there's definitely some LGBTQ,

uh, inclusion in there and some polyamory

498

in some of the relationships, not all.

499

Um, so.

500

So.

501

So.

502

That narrows it down somewhat because

there is, uh, I was surprised there's

503

quite a male fan base as well for

the game that I published and non

504

binary and all the crossover there.

505

Well, I mean, diversity is

always, you know, great to have

506

represented in both games and novels.

507

So I'm really glad that.

508

This is a game that, that kind of

hits that as well, because I think

509

that we need more, obviously, , I do.

510

And, um, just to touch on that point,

Hearts Choice has made it very clear

511

that that is a priority for them.

512

And, and I applaud them for that.

513

Um, one of the reasons that my game

has done as well as it has with

514

Hearts Choice, it was actually their

biggest launch that they've ever

515

had, uh, which, Congratulations.

516

Thank you.

517

It's just so amazing.

518

Um, but one of the reasons that it was

that is because I made it, uh, because

519

I coded it for, , a diverse player base.

520

, some of the Hearts Choice games

are locked in a gender lock.

521

So you're absolutely playing as a male or

you're playing as a female or, and there's

522

always non binary characters and, and, um,

you know, lots of diversity included, but.

523

To have the player character have so

many options, uh, is one of the reasons

524

why the game has been so well received.

525

Well, good for you for, for doing that.

526

I applaud you as well.

527

Thank you.

528

I'm just glad to be able to do that

because, you know, that isn't something

529

that I'm able to do as well in my novels.

530

I always try to include diversity,

but, um, I am writing from my

531

own perspective and experience.

532

And with the game, I was So

grateful and lucky to have,

533

there were 54 beta testers.

534

So I got feedback from 54 people who

played the game and told me what they

535

thought of it before it released.

536

Um, as well as several editors, which,

, made the game a thousand times better

537

than it would have been if I just tried

to bumble through and do it all by myself.

538

Wow.

539

The right editor for the writer is

always, um, really one of the best

540

things I think to have, especially

when you have a connection with,

541

with editors that, um, they see your

vision and, and help you like hone it.

542

It's it's like the sweet spot.

543

It's so important.

544

And, uh, when you, when you do create

that working relationship that, that

545

is synergistic, um, honestly, it's.

546

It's, it's so freeing because,

uh, for me, the feedback doesn't,

547

doesn't sting like it used to.

548

Um, that also might be that I've been

writing long enough and accepting

549

feedback long enough that, like, I've

learned how to accept it, but every,

550

every suggestion that my editor sends

my way, I'm like, yes, of course,

551

thank you for pointing that out.

552

It really is phenomenal

when, when that happens.

553

Um, so I'm really glad that you

experienced it because I think, , You'd

554

probably not want to do this type

of complexity again, if you had bad

555

experiences with editors, or even

really kind of each step, I think that

556

would stop you from doing that again.

557

And clearly you have a talent for that.

558

So I'm really glad.

559

I think that the entire, , staff

at Choice of Games and Hearts

560

Choice has just been phenomenal.

561

And, , I mean, everybody

from the artists to the beta

562

testers, , and the administration

and the, the marketing team.

563

Like, to have an actual team

behind you, uh, is magical.

564

And I think that's It's

something that, that people want

565

from traditional publishing.

566

, doing it as a self publishing, as a

self publisher, you know, you have to

567

go out and find those people or try

to be all of those people yourself.

568

And that's, that's really hard.

569

Yeah.

570

Yeah, it is.

571

, I was going to actually

ask you and I forgot in the

572

beginning of the conversation.

573

Do you have to have an

agent to write for games?

574

No, not at all.

575

So the process for heart's choice, and I

believe it's similar for choice of games.

576

I don't know about, , other companies,

, but I submitted a writing sample

577

and sent them my resume and I.

578

Was asked to submit a

second writing sample.

579

And after that they said,

here, pitch us a few concepts.

580

And the pitches were, you

know, a longish paragraph.

581

Um, and then after that, when they liked

one of my pitches, they said, okay, we

582

will pay you a small amount of money.

583

Well, it wasn't that small, but

it was still money to write an

584

outline because they recognized

that it takes quite a lot to.

585

Send in a 10 to 12 page outline,

, and go back and forth with the

586

editor enough times to wrap your

head around what it is they want.

587

Wow.

588

Um, that was really a learning

curve in the beginning, , but once

589

they approved the outline, the

game was greenlit and away we went.

590

That's, I keep saying that's awesome,

but like I just feel like that's really

591

the only adjective I can use here.

592

It's It's a really fun,

right, way to write.

593

Um, although while I was writing the

first game, I didn't always think that.

594

I know I reached out to you a few times.

595

I'm like, ah, why am I doing this?

596

Don't let me ever write another game.

597

And then three months after my first

game, I'm writing another game.

598

That's how it always is, right?

599

It's almost like giving birth.

600

You're like, why am I doing this?

601

And then you're like, oh, I love you.

602

I could do this again.

603

It's like, you forget very quickly

all the pain that you experienced.

604

Well, but I do think that.

605

At least in this instance, a

lot of that pain was because I

606

didn't know what I was doing.

607

I was having to learn code.

608

I was having to learn format.

609

I was having to learn how to keep

track of all these different variables

610

and stats that are required to

make this game work the way that it

611

works, which, um, that was a lot.

612

It was a lot to wrap my head around,

but I think it was absolutely worth

613

it because now, I mean, first of all,

my game has been, um, Just some of the

614

comments that people have said in the

forum on Choice of Games forum, uh, have

615

just given me the kind of confidence

that I've never had as a writer, uh,

616

because they've enjoyed it so much.

617

And now that I've actually gotten past

that learning curve, the second game is so

618

much more joy than, than the first because

I'm not struggling as much as I was.

619

Do you think that you'll eventually write?

620

Self help book on how to, how to get

into that world or, I mean, so, right.

621

So, cause you see, you do see writers

who, you know, then delve into that.

622

You've got like Sasha Black and Zoe York.

623

I mean, like they, they in turn turn

around and help people and other

624

writers on how to do these things.

625

So now are you, after you have a

couple games under your belt, do

626

you think you'll, you'll put out a

book telling others how to do it?

627

I never, it never even crossed my

mind, and I don't think I'm there yet.

628

I think, you know, one of, one of

the other writers who's written for,

629

you know, four games for choice of

games and a couple of others for

630

another company would probably be

in a better position to do that.

631

But, , it's a neat idea.

632

I could, I could maybe

write a blog post about it.

633

I'm here for the spark of creativity.

634

All right.

635

Well, if somebody wants to follow you

or to be, um, invested in your work or

636

to find out how you're moving along on

the timeline, where do they find you?

637

Well, you can always find me.

638

Um, my website is leahtallon.

639

com and the Twitter is leahtallon.

640

In fact, all of the socials you

can find me on as leahtallon.

641

Um, Timeline for the game, I'm not

really making super public, but, um,

642

there's usually on the Choice of Games

forum, they do do some updates, and if

643

somebody wants to go and play my game or

other games, you can go to heartschoice.

644

com or download the Hearts Choice app.

645

Um, so Hearts Choice, again,

is that romance specific side

646

of things, but Choice of Games

also has some incredible games.

647

to play.

648

Uh, so yeah, go and check those out.

649

Um, but please check out my game,

Their Majesty's Pleasure on Hearts

650

Choice, because I am just so thrilled

to be sharing it with people.

651

Well, and you're an incredible

writer, so I'm sure that the

652

games are just as wonderful.

653

Um, before you go, I need a one piece of

advice of something writers should not do.

654

Give up.

655

Awesome.

656

Yeah.

657

Yeah.

658

I think we all consider it more than a few

times, but if, if it's something that you

659

love, I mean, obviously if it's bringing

you nothing but grief and it's that spark,

660

that creative spark isn't there and it's

not bringing you any joy at all, okay,

661

find something else that does bring you

joy, but yeah, don't give up if you love

662

it, keep doing it right for yourself until

you find that audience that you love.

663

Resonates with what you do

because they're out there.

664

Well, thank you so much for joining

me on my second episode ever.

665

Um, this is, of course, it was a pleasure

to have you and I hope you come over

666

again and chat with my listeners.

667

I'd love to.

668

All right.

669

Thank you so much.

670

This week's.

671

industry information.

672

is going to be about.

673

crafting classes and crafting books.

674

everyone will tell you

as a new writer too.

675

Read craft books in order

to improve your craft.

676

And while there is.

677

A lot of validity about that.

678

Statement.

679

It can also become too much of a problem.

680

There are.

681

A plethora.

682

Of books on the market.

683

There are so many classes.

684

On.

685

All aspects , of writing that.

686

It's very easy to get overwhelmed.

687

It's a very easy to attempt

to apply every single.

688

, Rule or suggestion.

689

And it's enough to.

690

Cause frustration and.

691

Anxiety and.

692

Kind of all the bad things that

you don't want to come along

693

with improving your craft.

694

So that is my piece of

advice for this week.

695

Yes, learn and improve, but

also temper that with time.

696

To not only absorb what you have read

and see if it even applies to you.

697

But.

698

To also not kind of go balls to the wall.

699

Like just slow down.

700

Take things one at a time.

701

And.

702

There will always be craft books

and always be craft classes to take.

703

You'll get to them.

704

At some point.

705

Instead.

706

Go right.

707

Thank you for listening.

708

If you'd like to follow me,

my handle on all social media

709

platforms is Liv Macy Author.

710

You can also sign up for

my newsletter at livmacy.

711

com to stay up to date on things like new

releases of the Right to Read podcast.

712

This is the end of a

page in my author life.