Page Two with Leia Talon

Welcome to Write to Read podcast, a page in the life of an author. I'm Liv Macy, and these are my pages. This is page two. And I cannot wait for you to hear my conversation this week with Leia Talon, who is in the middle of writing her second hearts choice game. I also want to say thank you for being here. Uh, because, editing and recording and rerecording has been. A little frustrating at times. Because this is all new to me, obviously. The technology is new. The platforms that I'm using are new and the time that it has taken me to do some of these interviews and the episodes. And all that it entails has been. Quite an experience. Um, But I just want to say thank you because it makes it worthwhile to know that you were there listening. That you are wanting to spend 45 minutes or so. Of your precious time to. Listen to me and listen to the authors that come on here and to talk about their books or to be interviewed. About their lives or their experiences. And yeah. Thank you. I hope you enjoy this episode. And I hope you happy, wonderful week. this week's bit of randomness. is going to make you laugh. at me. I was at a doctor's appointment this past week. And the nurse tech asked me. About a timeline. I mentioned that I am 42. And so it must have been X amount of years ago. At the very strange look to her face. I kind of, you know, Raised an eyebrow. And she said, Did you say you're 42. And I thought about it for a split second and said, yes, I am And here mind you, I'm thinking. You know, she's maybe going to go, wow, you look great for your age or. Something along those lines because. When those types of things happen to me, I default to my ego. And I think to myself, There's no way I could have screwed up. It must be, it must be a compliment coming something. I think that's a defense mechanism, but that's neither here nor there. And so I confirmed that I am indeed 42. And the nurse. The nurse tech proceeds to tell me that. I'm not 42. And. I kind of laughed and thought to myself, Did she just tell me I'm I'm not my age. And so. She says you're, you're not, you're not 42. I've looked at your date of birth when I was entering your information into the screen. And you're not 42. And so I think back real quick, because I have a fall birthday and I'm thinking, okay, well, That must be it. I must be 43 and I just turned 43 and I just don't remember. You know, to update myself when I'm saying I'm 42 all year long, you know, there's always that time period. And so. I say that to her. And she looks at me even more strangely and says, ah, No, ma'am you are 44. I'm not exactly sure how long I've been telling people. I'm 42. And I'm not exactly sure why, because I've never been one of the women who, you know, stops aging at 28. I've never been that lucky. And so. Uh, I'm not really sure. What happened? And I can only default to the fact that during COVID. I seem to have lost a couple of years and that's what I'm sticking to. So if you're. Laughing at me hysterically. You're welcome. And if not, I'm sorry, we probably don't have the same type of humor and that's okay. Because that's what makes the world go round. Coming up is my favorite segment. Which is of course. Beyond the blurb. I'm always thrilled to have authors come on and talk about their book because it gives them a platform. To let people know that maybe haven't heard of them or haven't heard of their book. And let them know and share. The only caveat of course is, is that I cannot, endorse everybody because I can't. Read everybody's books ahead of time. There's just no way, unfortunately. though, I wish I could. I wish I could clone myself and have enough time to have oneself just sitting and reading. And so Please welcome these authors. And I hope as always that you find something amazing. hello there, I am Shelby Storm, author of Forever After All, which is book one in the Mercenary Ranch series. It is a small town romance, uh, rodeo romance. cowboy romance, western romance, whatever you want to call it. It hits all those boxes. It has a little bit of spice in it, depending on your spice rating, somewhere between a 2 and a 3, I would say. We have all the feels, a rollercoaster of emotions go through, um, you're going to go through. it follows Charlie Evans, who just left her small town five years ago and is now forced to come back, with the death of her sister. And she has just been named the sole guardian of her nephew. And She's trying to figure out what she's going to do with her life, as well as take care of this five year old who she has never met in person before. and then, as all of her life comes crumbling down, she meets Yes, you did hear that right. he is a true southern gentleman. He's sweet as pie. He is good looking and he is just as perfect as can be. The only catch, he is a rodeo cowboy and she has sworn off rodeo cowboys. for the rest of her life. Um, so basically, she has to make a decision. Is she going to let her past haunt her? Or is she going to take a chance on right or right? Uh, that is the big question. That is basically, uh, what Forever After All is about. It is, it was a number one, um, bestseller in rodeos. it is currently still in the top 100, for that category. And, if you are looking for something that is a bit spicy, isn't something that's going to be too inappropriate to read around your kids, um, and is just a really good feel good story, then take a chance on it and pick it up. You might enjoy. Hi, I'm Peggy Jager. I write romances about strong women, the families who support them, and the men who can't live without them. I also am part of the Dickens Holiday Romance Series. My addition to the series this year is a book called Don't Mess with the Mistletoe. It takes place in the tiny New England fictional town of Dickens, New Hampshire. Although, it's probably New England, but I say New Hampshire, because that's where I live. The story evolves around Michael Charles, who is the third child in the Charles adoptive family. He's a pilot, and he's home for vacation for the Christmas holidays. His two older sisters are very pregnant and they bring him into the fold to help their mother run their family diner. Amy Charles is tired. She's been running the diner for 50 years and she needs some help. So Michael volunteers for a month. Little does he know how much his life is going to change in that month. He meets a widowed waitress with a child who he falls head over heels in love with. But there are complications. She has a tortured past, as does he. And he's not a permanent kind of a guy. But Julia Maryland, a waitress, is a permanent kind of girl. When a family emergency makes Michael rethink his non permanent lifestyle, sparks ensue and he has to come to a decision about what his life is going to be. If you like small town and small town boy romances, rom coms, family, a little bit of angst, a little bit of sweet with heat, and a whole lot of love, Don't Mess With The Mistletoe could be for you. Hi, I am Laura Navarre, and I am going to be talking to you today about my spicy paranormal adult academy, Why Choose Romance, Gemini Queen, which is the first in the four book Dark Witch Academy series. My book is about Zara Gemini, who's actually a cat burglar. And when the story opens, she's in Singapore pulling off a heist. And in mid heist, she gets kidnapped and whisked away to the dark witch academy, where she discovers that she's actually the next. queen of the witching world, which is a gig that she didn't ask for and that she refuses to accept. But unfortunately, the four sexy warlocks that rule the school just won't take no for an answer. And so Zara has to learn to control her very terrifying magic. She has to deal with these four enemy bully warlocks who are, of course, sexy as fuck. And through the course of the book, she discovers that these so called enemies are actually all together, and by the end of the book, she's together with them, too. So that's the start of the series, and it is very spicy. It is very shifty. It is very wild and witchy and why choosy. So I hope you check it out. Uh, I'm on Amazon. You can read the first three books in the series, uh, in ebook or print and the audio books are coming. So hope you enjoy it. And this is the part I've been dreading all week because. My author writing update should be. A little bit heavier on the actually have done a lot of writing part and I have not. I have not been procrastinating. I have been busy doing other things. I had a bunch of PR boxes book boxes that needed to go out. Um, on this coming week. And I did some prepping for this podcast and I did some prepping. For book four because I am trying to actually plot a little bit more than pants, which is what I usually do. And, um, Yeah, it's not going as well as I would've liked it to go. So I kind of am giving up on the plotting ahead of time. Option. Which does mean that I have to do a little bit more writing this week than I had originally planned to, which is going to be difficult with the holidays coming up. At the end of this week. And I still have to wrap presents because I have not yet. And. Yeah. So, I mean, I kind of feel like this is going to be, you guys are all going to be my accountability partners because. I was literally dreading. Recording the session because I, I did not want to see, like I was. Not doing what I should be doing, which is writing. Um, So I am. Crossing my fingers and hopefully we'll have. A much better update next week. This episode. Has been brought to you by me. Because I do not have paying customers yet. Vying for ad space in my episode. I know, shocking. Sometimes I really do wonder why I record some of these things and this should be a blooper, but it's not going to be, it's going to go right in here because. It's real. And this is. The space for ad space that I. Don't have anyone paying for, so here I am. Brought to you by. Liv Macy. Do I talk about myself in the third person? No, that's weird. I'm not talking about myself. And the third person. Okay. This, uh, this episode, page two has been sponsored by myself. So, you know, Uh, by my books and. That's about all the adding I'm going to do here. And of course, if you should, so choose. I too want to have ad space. In the middle of my podcast. You can sign up for that on my website, I have a page for. Uh, the podcast and all the episodes that have aired as well as. Uh, Google forms and documents that you can fill out. If you are interested in doing a book spotlight, if you are interested in doing an interview and if you are interested in. Paying for an ad in sponsoring an episode. As always you can follow me on social media at live Macy author. And on my website@www.live macy.com. Hi, Leia. Thank you so much for stopping by and chatting with me. Thank you so much for having me. Of course. So can you tell me a little bit about Hearts Choice? I can. So Hearts Choice is the romance division of Choice of Games, which is an interactive fiction company, it's really interesting, to me because it's text based interactive fiction. It's a game, it's like a choose your own path novel, where your choices make the difference in how the story goes. And Hearts Choice is unique in that it is the romance division. So you're getting your happily ever after with whichever romance option you choose in the game. And all of the Hearts Choice games that I have played have different romance options. So you can play multiple times and, invest in different romances as well as adventures Really, I, I've really enjoyed all the writing of the games that I have read on Hearts Choice. It's a fun medium as a storyteller, and it's a really fun medium as a reader. Is Hearts Choice for kids or for adults? That is for adults. It is, uh, some of the games are 18 some, it, it's romance. So it, I would say 18 My games are definitely 18 even though, um, all of the scenes are, have options to opt out. Awesome. Okay, so how do you, how, I mean, I know you in the writing world, so tell me how do you get into something like that for anybody who's listening who, you know, either writes or plays and wants to write games or is a writer who's interested in heading into that path? Yeah, so there are a lot of different interactive fiction companies I'm not familiar with. The entire spectrum of what interactive fiction offers. I'm much more familiar with Heart's Choice and the Choice of Games platforms. Um, but it is much bigger. I just want to mention that. If somebody's interested in getting into interactive fiction, I mean, my first recommendation would be to go play some games and see what you like and what you don't like and how you think you might add your own unique, voice to The genre, so choice of games that is like the parent company, they actually have another. Um, division called Hosted Games, and that is for anybody can go and write a game and it can be one of the hosted games, that one isn't contracted. So I'm a contracted writer for Heart's Choice. I, submitted writing to them, said, Hey, I'd love to write for you. Pitched a few concepts. They picked one of my concepts and that turned into, my first release, which came out. This year, Their Majesty's Pleasure is the title of that. But before that, I hadn't really done much in interactive fiction. I played a couple of different games, more on linear models of different, uh, not Hearts Choice and Choice of Games. And, and what I mean by linear is, there weren't as many branches on the game, the interactive fiction that I had played. Mm hmm. Whereas Hearts Choice and Choice of Games really focus on the player character having agency, and the agency, the choices that you make as the player character, um, that affects stats, and those stats, those make the difference in how the story unfolds, I mean, not just the stats, your choices make the difference in how the story unfolds, but the stats affect, what happens. In the game and there's like testing choices that come in a little bit later in the games and sometimes you pass the test and sometimes you fail and there's always interesting things that happen in that, there's, it's just a really fun rabbit hole to dive down. That, yeah, I mean, it sounds like really like an awesome. Okay. So for me, it doesn't sound like I, I have like, I have this vision of something and I, I can't seem to. Like veer off. If I veer off into something, I tend to forget to the original, like what I'm doing. So I think that's an amazing, uh, like skill to have. me personally, I just, I, I, I don't have those skills and I really wish I did because I think that it makes it, um. Intriguing, like, like to be able to, instead of just one world, you have all these worlds that you can build and get into. And I feel like your brain is so complex and so, I don't know. It's, I think it's incredible. Um, well, thank you. I. I think it's incredible too. I mean, honestly, as I was, as I was writing my last game, I was in awe and sometimes stupefied by what my brain had to go through. Um, I, it took me my whole first game to really get a handle on it. And just to throw out some word count numbers there, my first game came in at 225, 000 words. Play through is closer to 50 or 60,000 words. Wow. So when you're playing, you're reading like a novela or short novel worth of story. Um, when you're writing, you're writing so many different scenes or the same scene in different ways with different characters. Um, and you have to be careful about how many branches you make because you have to follow all of those branches through. Right. Uh, so now I, I. Uh, I have a, I've been contracted to write a second game, which, yay, I'm so excited about. I know. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. It's really fun. And after writing the first game, the second game, like the process for me is so much more enjoyable because now I actually know what I'm doing. Yeah. I really didn't in the first game. I just kind of flew by the seat of my pants, um, but I made it work and players have really enjoyed it. I think that kind of goes with anybody hand in hand for writers. Like you write your first, second, sometimes third, fourth, fifth book before you really kind of get into streamlining a process for yourself. Um, for not even just efficiency, but like just to get it done and accomplished and meet your end goal, I guess. I agree. And, and I used to be a pantser in that I didn't outline. I just started writing and woo, whatever came, came, um, with. With games, with interactive fiction, you really don't want to do that, you know, it's, it's not a good way to go, uh, in my personal opinion, um, having an outline, you know where you're going, you're not going to get too many branches, that are completely out of control, and that's been a big shift for me as a writer, is having this outline process, and I go back and forth with my editor until we're happy with it, before I even start writing the game. Okay. So I guess you're, you're doing the whole plotting beforehand. I'm writing a thorough outline, but there's still tons of surprises for me as I get into the writing. Like there's, I still start writing and hey, this is happening. Okay, let's go with it. so it's not like I've given up all of the fun of pantsing, which is that surprise of, hey, look what my characters are doing now. Okay. I had no idea they were going to do that. there's still plenty of that happening for me, which I, I really find enjoyable. Yeah, I don't think, I feel like I would be stifled creatively if I couldn't, if I had to stick to something like that, even, and I, and I know that I'm a pantser as well. So I know that not all plotters are like, okay, it has to be this way, but that's how I feel. Like, I feel like if I'm plotting something, it's almost set in stone. And then I. I kind of come to a wall and I'm like, how do I get there and how do I move past that? I, I just, I guess I just have that either it's yet another skill that I haven't learned or, um, I'm just, I feel like I'm just not capable of plotting out and still moving forward. I mean, we each have our own process. I think, um, doing interactive fiction and working with my editor, Abby Trevor has really helped me to learn how to outline and how to use an outline as. Um, as a tool rather than something that's holding me back. Uh, it, it is really helpful in interactive fiction. I need to know where I'm going. I need to know what are the key points in each chapter that I'm going to focus on. And I have to know the end states. Because there, I'll, I will write, well, let's see. In this, in, in Their Majesty's Pleasure, there are five love interests. There are three male love interests and two female love interests and four out of the five are cool with polyamory. So that is seven endings that I wrote just for the romance part and then there are the political and um, and world. Uh, adventure, like the aspects of it. Yeah, the aspects, the, the, the conclusions. Thank you. That's okay. But my fingers work better than my, um, than my mouth when I'm looking for words. Um, so there are all of these different end states. That I have to know that I'm aiming for before I start so that I can make sure that I cover all of the plot that gets us to those end states. Again, I think that is an incredible skill and I am so impressed. So impressed. I struggle writing one, one book with the arc. and of course you have written books beforehand. You're self published as well, correct? Yes. I have a romanticy duet, which is kind of like a cross between Outlander and the Time Traveler's Wife and Marvel's Thor. the first book is called Falling Through the Weaving. And there I've written, um, so I have that Romantici duet and, um, I have quite a few manuscripts that are unpublished. So there was a lot of growing as a writer involved with that process. So that really helped me to get to the point where I was ready to take on an interactive fiction story, uh, and I mean, I, I was. It's contracted by Heart's Choice because of that writing. Um, one of the samples that I provided to them was the first chapter of Falling Through the Weaving. And they said, yeah, pitch me some concepts. And I'm so glad that they liked the fantasy concept that I pitched because fantasy is really my wheelhouse. That's awesome. Now having the experience of Hart's Choice and the plotting experience, um, do you think you're going to go back to those unpublished manuscripts and now apply the knowledge that you've used? Are you just going to eventually move forward or do you just want to stay with writing, um, like games or what are your, what are your future plans? Oh, I have such big plans. Um, I'm so excited. I love big plans. That's great. I'm so excited about, well, what, what happened as I was writing this last game is I realized that the world that I created in Their Majesty's Pleasure actually could connect with the world that I had written in one of my favorite unpublished manuscripts. And so what I started, um, doing was Letting the story evolve so that there was crossover in the characters, so that there were different romances between these different key characters that would take, uh, that would, that would take a series to go through, um, you know, focusing on this, these These characters romance in this book and the next book, you know, there's another pair but so I took a little break between my first wrapping up my first game and starting the second game and Adapted the first game into a novel a novel and a half The second part of that is still in progress But it's been so much fun because in the game I'm a little bit limited in How far, how much detail I can put into some things because the player character, I'm not the one saying who this player character is, the player is. So if you're playing the game, you get to decide what the character's personality is like and what their backstory is, which is super fun as a player. Um, but in the novel, I got to make up that main character and give her all of the traits that I wanted to. It's, it's interesting to me the freedoms that are provided in interactive fiction where I can write, um, I can write for a player who is coming from a male, female, or non binary perspective, um, any preference of romance, and, and any preference of heat level as well. Whereas in the novel, I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to have it slow burn up until this point, and then it's gonna be super spicy, and that's just how it is. Whereas if somebody's playing the game, and they like it super spicy, they can have that throughout the entire game, or if they want to avoid those scenes entirely, they have that option, and there are really sweet scenes that are interspersed throughout, um, So, yeah, two different mediums, two different ways to approach it, but, uh, coming back to my big plans, um, what I would really like to see, you know, a few years into the future is a series of books that are all in the same world as the games that I'm writing. Um, and I just, I'm so excited about the games and I'm so excited about the books and I just need enough time to actually write them all, all out. Oh, I feel like that's like the, uh, writer's bane of existence, time. Yes. Time and productivity, like actual, yeah, reasonable productivity. Yes. Do you plan on self publishing those, or are you going to try to get agented for the novels? Um, I'm definitely, I have been sending out some queries. I'm not pushing too hard right now because I am focusing on the second game that I'm writing. If I find that there is traditional publishing interest, Yay! Um, if not, that's okay. I know how to self publish. I've done it before. I think self publishing, indie publishing, is an incredible path and, um, becoming more and more valid as the years go by. Um, so I'm really open to it at this point, but I do want to wait until I have at least the first three or four books finished before I go forward. Are you thinking of, um, Is it possible to have the same fan base as the people who are interested in the games? Or do you think you'd have to kind of search for a new, uh, reader group? I think there's some crossover, uh, but I do think that there would be a very different market for the novels versus the games. Um, some people like interactive, interactive fiction and books, obviously. Um, but the other issue is in the game. Again, you can play male, female, or non binary, whereas the novels, I'm really writing from a female perspective because that's where I'm coming from, even though there's definitely some LGBTQ, uh, inclusion in there and some polyamory in some of the relationships, not all. Um, so. So. So. That narrows it down somewhat because there is, uh, I was surprised there's quite a male fan base as well for the game that I published and non binary and all the crossover there. Well, I mean, diversity is always, you know, great to have represented in both games and novels. So I'm really glad that. This is a game that, that kind of hits that as well, because I think that we need more, obviously, I do. And, um, just to touch on that point, Hearts Choice has made it very clear that that is a priority for them. And, and I applaud them for that. Um, one of the reasons that my game has done as well as it has with Hearts Choice, it was actually their biggest launch that they've ever had, uh, which, Congratulations. Thank you. It's just so amazing. Um, but one of the reasons that it was that is because I made it, uh, because I coded it for, a diverse player base. some of the Hearts Choice games are locked in a gender lock. So you're absolutely playing as a male or you're playing as a female or, and there's always non binary characters and, and, um, you know, lots of diversity included, but. To have the player character have so many options, uh, is one of the reasons why the game has been so well received. Well, good for you for, for doing that. I applaud you as well. Thank you. I'm just glad to be able to do that because, you know, that isn't something that I'm able to do as well in my novels. I always try to include diversity, but, um, I am writing from my own perspective and experience. And with the game, I was So grateful and lucky to have, there were 54 beta testers. So I got feedback from 54 people who played the game and told me what they thought of it before it released. Um, as well as several editors, which, made the game a thousand times better than it would have been if I just tried to bumble through and do it all by myself. Wow. The right editor for the writer is always, um, really one of the best things I think to have, especially when you have a connection with, with editors that, um, they see your vision and, and help you like hone it. It's it's like the sweet spot. It's so important. And, uh, when you, when you do create that working relationship that, that is synergistic, um, honestly, it's. It's, it's so freeing because, uh, for me, the feedback doesn't, doesn't sting like it used to. Um, that also might be that I've been writing long enough and accepting feedback long enough that, like, I've learned how to accept it, but every, every suggestion that my editor sends my way, I'm like, yes, of course, thank you for pointing that out. It really is phenomenal when, when that happens. Um, so I'm really glad that you experienced it because I think, You'd probably not want to do this type of complexity again, if you had bad experiences with editors, or even really kind of each step, I think that would stop you from doing that again. And clearly you have a talent for that. So I'm really glad. I think that the entire, staff at Choice of Games and Hearts Choice has just been phenomenal. And, I mean, everybody from the artists to the beta testers, and the administration and the, the marketing team. Like, to have an actual team behind you, uh, is magical. And I think that's It's something that, that people want from traditional publishing. doing it as a self publishing, as a self publisher, you know, you have to go out and find those people or try to be all of those people yourself. And that's, that's really hard. Yeah. Yeah, it is. I was going to actually ask you and I forgot in the beginning of the conversation. Do you have to have an agent to write for games? No, not at all. So the process for heart's choice, and I believe it's similar for choice of games. I don't know about, other companies, but I submitted a writing sample and sent them my resume and I. Was asked to submit a second writing sample. And after that they said, here, pitch us a few concepts. And the pitches were, you know, a longish paragraph. Um, and then after that, when they liked one of my pitches, they said, okay, we will pay you a small amount of money. Well, it wasn't that small, but it was still money to write an outline because they recognized that it takes quite a lot to. Send in a 10 to 12 page outline, and go back and forth with the editor enough times to wrap your head around what it is they want. Wow. Um, that was really a learning curve in the beginning, but once they approved the outline, the game was greenlit and away we went. That's, I keep saying that's awesome, but like I just feel like that's really the only adjective I can use here. It's It's a really fun, right, way to write. Um, although while I was writing the first game, I didn't always think that. I know I reached out to you a few times. I'm like, ah, why am I doing this? Don't let me ever write another game. And then three months after my first game, I'm writing another game. That's how it always is, right? It's almost like giving birth. You're like, why am I doing this? And then you're like, oh, I love you. I could do this again. It's like, you forget very quickly all the pain that you experienced. Well, but I do think that. At least in this instance, a lot of that pain was because I didn't know what I was doing. I was having to learn code. I was having to learn format. I was having to learn how to keep track of all these different variables and stats that are required to make this game work the way that it works, which, um, that was a lot. It was a lot to wrap my head around, but I think it was absolutely worth it because now, I mean, first of all, my game has been, um, Just some of the comments that people have said in the forum on Choice of Games forum, uh, have just given me the kind of confidence that I've never had as a writer, uh, because they've enjoyed it so much. And now that I've actually gotten past that learning curve, the second game is so much more joy than, than the first because I'm not struggling as much as I was. Do you think that you'll eventually write? Self help book on how to, how to get into that world or, I mean, so, right. So, cause you see, you do see writers who, you know, then delve into that. You've got like Sasha Black and Zoe York. I mean, like they, they in turn turn around and help people and other writers on how to do these things. So now are you, after you have a couple games under your belt, do you think you'll, you'll put out a book telling others how to do it? I never, it never even crossed my mind, and I don't think I'm there yet. I think, you know, one of, one of the other writers who's written for, you know, four games for choice of games and a couple of others for another company would probably be in a better position to do that. But, it's a neat idea. I could, I could maybe write a blog post about it. I'm here for the spark of creativity. All right. Well, if somebody wants to follow you or to be, um, invested in your work or to find out how you're moving along on the timeline, where do they find you? Well, you can always find me. Um, my website is leahtallon. com and the Twitter is leahtallon. In fact, all of the socials you can find me on as leahtallon. Um, Timeline for the game, I'm not really making super public, but, um, there's usually on the Choice of Games forum, they do do some updates, and if somebody wants to go and play my game or other games, you can go to heartschoice. com or download the Hearts Choice app. Um, so Hearts Choice, again, is that romance specific side of things, but Choice of Games also has some incredible games. to play. Uh, so yeah, go and check those out. Um, but please check out my game, Their Majesty's Pleasure on Hearts Choice, because I am just so thrilled to be sharing it with people. Well, and you're an incredible writer, so I'm sure that the games are just as wonderful. Um, before you go, I need a one piece of advice of something writers should not do. Give up. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I think we all consider it more than a few times, but if, if it's something that you love, I mean, obviously if it's bringing you nothing but grief and it's that spark, that creative spark isn't there and it's not bringing you any joy at all, okay, find something else that does bring you joy, but yeah, don't give up if you love it, keep doing it right for yourself until you find that audience that you love. Resonates with what you do because they're out there. Well, thank you so much for joining me on my second episode ever. Um, this is, of course, it was a pleasure to have you and I hope you come over again and chat with my listeners. I'd love to. All right. Thank you so much. This week's. industry information. is going to be about. crafting classes and crafting books. everyone will tell you as a new writer too. Read craft books in order to improve your craft. And while there is. A lot of validity about that. Statement. It can also become too much of a problem. There are. A plethora. Of books on the market. There are so many classes. On. All aspects of writing that. It's very easy to get overwhelmed. It's a very easy to attempt to apply every single. Rule or suggestion. And it's enough to. Cause frustration and. Anxiety and. Kind of all the bad things that you don't want to come along with improving your craft. So that is my piece of advice for this week. Yes, learn and improve, but also temper that with time. To not only absorb what you have read and see if it even applies to you. But. To also not kind of go balls to the wall. Like just slow down. Take things one at a time. And. There will always be craft books and always be craft classes to take. You'll get to them. At some point. Instead. Go right. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to follow me, my handle on all social media platforms is Liv Macy Author. You can also sign up for my newsletter at livmacy. com to stay up to date on things like new releases of the Right to Read podcast. This is the end of a page in my author life.