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Welcome to Write to Read podcast, a page in the life of an author. I'm Liv Macy, and these are my pages. Page one. And I cannot tell you how excited I am to be finally starting this podcast. Thank you so much for joining me. And I hope you enjoyed the content here that you come back weekly. I hope you enjoy the conversations around the laptop segment. Later on in this show with Kim Finley. A hybrid Harlequin author. For today's bit of randomness. I am reading this week, salt and broom by Sharon Lynn Fisher. And also 10 steps to hero by Sasha black. As is customary for me, I will not be giving reviews of the books that I read because I completely believe that reading is subjective. And I would never want someone to read something just because I have read it and liked it. And then maybe be disappointed because they didn't feel the same. We have reached the beyond the blurb segment of the podcast, which is one of my favorite portions of the show. Here I can have the best of both worlds to give my listeners the opportunity to hear about books that may not have crossed their path. And also to give authors a space to share their book on a wide platform for zero cost. But it comes with a caveat. There's no way that I can read every single book that is highlighted and to ensure that the authors or the works aren't problematic or offensive. I simply don't have the time. And as such, I must say that I do not endorse any of the books within this show. However, I do hope that you find something amazing. Happy reading. Today I am telling you about my book, my picture book, Snow Day, A Little Boo Adventure by Anya Yeager. It is a winter ghost story because I thought we needed more of them. Charles Dickens has kind of had his hold on that for too long and I wanted in. This is not a holiday or a book with any religious tones to it. It is just a winter story about a ghost who goes out to have some fun outside and exploring the snow. The target ages are about three to six, six ish, six or seven, and it is kind of like the Addams Family meets Calvin and Hobbes. When I set out to make this book, I was hoping for, multilingual families to enjoy it, but it has been really well received with neuro spicy kids as well as teachers. I wanted this book to be, a book that kids could enjoy with anyone in their family, regardless of boundaries or education level, but I really wanted this to be a book that was theirs, that they could have and enjoy by themselves and not have to wait for anyone, to be available. Uh, the series, it is one in a series, But, I love Snow Day. It is, it is a fun little winter story. it is one in a series of Little Boo adventures, and it's a great addition to the library of any little monsters in your life. Hi, everybody. This is Jasmine Cartwright. I'm an indie author from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and I'm here to talk about my debut novel, Please Excuse Our Confusion. Please Excuse Our Confusion is a YA rom com, and it follows a young girl named Bowie as she navigates friendships, self discovery, and her own personal secrets, as well as holding secrets for her loved ones. Bowie finds herself in an interesting situation with her best friend. And while feeling obligated to this, this kind of situationship, she also finds herself wanting more out of her personal life. It's a story about secrets. It's a story about. It's friendship, it's a story about sexuality, and it's a story about what happens when we don't allow people to truly be themselves. Hi, I'm Liv, and I want to talk to you about a book called The Lighthouse Keeper. It's an M. M. Victorian Gothic spooky witch's magic heat shenanigans romance with slow burn and opposites attract, grumpy sunshine, and Yeah, it, it, it was all about the spooky with this one. Vincent is our hero and he is a witch, which is unfortunate because it means he got pruned from his family tree because in 1890s, nice people didn't practice witchcraft. And so he is a bit adrift. And the witch's council sends him to Seattle to find an object called the Pharaoh's core. And the Pharaoh's core is magic and it's evil. And its keeper has been staying at a remote lighthouse outside of Seattle. So Vincent travels there. He's been told. The, the keeper has passed away. You're going to meet his widow and his son, who's a kid. And you're going to have no problem getting up there, charming your way into their lives, picking up the Pharaoh's core and trotting it back to the witch's council in San Francisco. Unfortunately, the son is not a kid. The son is in his mid twenties somewhere. And from Vincent's point of view, he is rather awkwardly handsome. And so the two of them. Need to work together to find the Ferox core, because in fact, Rafe's father hit it before he passed away. So they need to find it before Rafe's father can cross the veil between worlds on Samhain or Halloween and mess everybody up. And so, yeah, that's the, that's the driving force. It's, it's about spookiness and romance and fun. There's not any higher purpose to this book. Before I get into my updates. I just want to take a moment to thank you for taking a chance on a new podcast. I know your time is valuable. And I'm fortunate that you chose to spend it with me. Some of the segments may get tweaked, as time goes on, as the feedback kind of rolls in. this will be a work in progress until I now what really works. So please, if you listen through the whole show, send me a message. Let me know what you have liked so far, what you'd like to see in the future. okay. So my updates, I am actively starting book four in the infinites universe, which includes searching for my heroine and her soulmate. I am a visual type of person. So when I am writing, when I'm drafting. I kind of want to stare at the person that I'm writing about. In order to. Kind of accurately put down. What I'm seeing. Um, I know, not everybody does that. I know everybody's different with what kind of puts them into the story that they're creating. But for me, I am a literal type of person. I want to see that. What I'm what I'm describing. I want to smell it. I want to experience it. I want to feel it. I want to do as much. Use as many of the senses of my five senses as I can. While I'm writing. Obviously there are paranormal and fantastical elements to some of the books that I'm writing. I cannot experience everything, but. As much as I can. I really, I really strive to do that. So it takes a lot of time. Uh, researching through Pinterest and Google and modeling companies, because I have in my mind's eye, what this person looks like. And I need to find an actual live. Interpretation of that. That is always fun. Um, Particularly when it's a bunch of eye candy, both female and male. And so. You know, someone has to do it. I will take one for the team. Uh, of course I'm also writing. I will actually be furiously writing every day so that I can take time off for the holidays so I can spend it with my family and my friends of course, with my kitchen, because I am a big. Cook. I like to make a lot of the meals for Christmas. For traditions. And of course that takes time. So the next book, I am hoping. We'll release in February. Mid February to end of February. Which means that I have to get my butt in the chair every day. And that is exactly what I'm doing. Um, But I also have to temper that with not wanting to hit burnout. I am attempting to pace myself, even though I'm trying to write as much as possible. Um, Pacing myself is actually laughable to anyone who knows me in the publishing community because. I don't know why, but I am deadline driven, uh, and even being deadline driven. I still procrastinate until the last possible. Moment. I tend to take on projects and jump into things. That needed to be done yesterday. And I don't know why I do that. I do it to myself. I know. Um, unfortunately, that's just the way I am so far. Fortunately it seems to have worked for me. Everything seems to always fall into place and get finished on time. And. Yeah, I've been very fortunate that that's happened. I guess I would be probably one of those people that. If I get burned by that, I won't do it again. So I'm hoping. That everything continues to work out in my favor. And if it doesn't well I'll guess I'll learn my lesson. I don't learn how to schedule. And pace myself a little bit better. And on that note, please make sure that you follow me on social media. Or you can subscribe to my newsletter to be kept up to date. On what is going on with the podcast. And now I'm so excited to bring to you. Conversations around my laptop. I have a special episode today with Kim Finley, who I have invited to be my first guest. And here she is. So, Kim, hi. Thank you so much for joining me. I am so pleased that you asked me. I feel so special. You are saying. But, um, because we've never actually met in person. It's all been online. Yes, but it has been a great experience knowing you. I have told people, like, one of the big pieces of advice that people want for writing is, like, to find a community like we have on Discord. Um, it just helps so many ways. So I am very glad. I can't, was it Susan or somebody who started it and she's gone and we just kept it up? Yeah, she's, yep. Yeah, either way, it's, it has been an absolute lifesaver. The writing community is the most important. So, um, absolutely agree. It's, it's been a, it's been a great support. Um, so why don't you start out and tell us a little bit about yourself? Uh, as I mentioned, you are a hybrid author. Um, I actually, and when you're talking about community, I was, First published by Harlequin, and that happened as a result, again, of somebody I knew. It was actually somebody in my church who was writing for the Love Inspired Suspense line. And I followed her on social media, and it was kind of like, Ooh, she's a writer. Like, I'd always wanted to be. And she would post about opportunities and contests that they had with Harlequin. And they used to have, um, So You Think You Can Write Contest every year. And whoever won would get their book published. And the first year I did it, it was on Whatsapp. You had to put your book on Whatsapp and people voted on the first chapter, or they judged the first chapter and then the community voted for the winner. And so I joined Wattpad for that. And even though I was one of the 50 chapters they picked, I did not win the book. It wasn't that strong, but also like I had no followers. I didn't know anybody on there, but it got me into it. And then later they had this thing that, a kind of contest thing they called a blitz that they don't do anymore, where, um, as I figured out, one of the lines that needed more writers, or they, they wanted more content, you could send in a synopsis in a first chapter, and instead of going into a big slush pile, they would respond within like 30 days. And that is how, um, an editor like my story wanted to, to see a, a full manuscript, and My biggest problem to that point was I had so many ideas I never finished anything because something else would, you know, Ooh, that looks shiny. I'll go after that. And that is how I ended up with Harlequin and getting published. I'm like, I had no idea about getting agents or any of that stuff. So I was traditionally published without even having an agent. And again, it was because of somebody I knew who just let me know what was out there because I did not know. That's awesome. I would have never, I don't think I would have put myself out there like that in a group. Um, so that's Well, because it's somewhat anonymous, right? You're just sending in online. It's not actually, for me, throw something out, you know, in an email or something is not scary because, you know, they can not answer, delete your email and you may never know. So that's not, that's not the scary part. In person, I find that much more intimidating. Yeah. Still a little ballsy though, I think. Um, so now you are working on self publishing, correct? Yeah, um, writing for Harlequin was a great experience. I learned a lot. Uh, but I've written in, I've published with heartwarming and love inspired suspense and heartwarming is a language you will never earn out your advance. And sort of as I got to know more and I had story ideas that didn't fit in that line, um, you know, I did the querying thing and, and I had an agent who then dropped me and then I just lost my agent recently because in the last month the owner of the agency died and so the agency's been disbanded. So the agent thing is seemingly not working out for me. And so, um, Thanks mostly, I think, to our Discord group and people there who are self publishing. Um, I've doing that. I've also My first two books were hockey romances, and that's kind of where I really enjoy writing. But I, one time when I pitched a book on, I think it was in Savvy Author's Pit, because, you know, I'll throw things out there online all the time. Uh, Sourcebooks editor said, Hockey romance does better self publishing, indie publishing. And then a couple things came up, um, I'd had a hockey Christmas romance in an anthology a couple years ago that went nowhere, but in the, there's a Facebook group for people who write hockey romance because it's a thing, and somebody was doing an anthology for Christmas stories, and I thought, well, I already have the story, I've already had it edited, so why not see if that will go in there, and I thought, well, also, I had one other hockey book that Serena Bowen's Um, her, she set up a publishing company so people could publish in her world, and it's a hockey romance, and college, and people love the epilogue. So I had come up with this idea of, you know, doing something after that epilogue with one of the side characters in that book. And this little short story was also in that world with somebody from that college community. And it's like, well, you know, if I was ever going to do it, here I've got a chance. You know, to get that short story out there to hockey people, maybe it's a good time. And then, um, sometimes you need to be careful about things you suggest. Um, I had, I have joined a couple of these Book of the Month clubs, where you get a free book every month, and you're signed up for people's newsletters, but it's a way to try different authors and see if you like it, and then go back and get more of their work if you like. And I suggested in this hockey author group that maybe just a hockey focused book of the month club would be an idea. And their response was, that's a great idea, Kim. Thanks for doing it. It's like, wait, I've never done this. I haven't self pubbed yet. I don't know what I'm doing. But, uh, I have found that the writing community is very helpful. One of the people interested In this book of the month club is in another one and the person who ran that gave me an email like step by step instructions. We now have we're getting close to like 6, 500 people who have signed up for the club. It started in September. So it's following the hockey season you get two free books a month. So as the person who's doing it I can have my book in there and it and everybody promotes it. So I have this chance if I was going to self publish I have the short story coming out. The, the giveaway ends on December 1st. There's already more than 8, 000 people who have, uh, downloaded that. And now we'll be, I will have their email addresses so I can tell them about my books. There's all these people from the hockey. book of the month club, including some really big names. I was surprised at some of the people who joined these authors. I've got a big following and it's like, well, if you want a way to launch it, I've got this, these thousands of people who like hockey romance who are going to hear about me. That would not. Otherwise, I'd just be sort of in the massive, Here it is. Books out there. So, yeah. So, um, in January, uh, it should, my first book should be out. That's, that's incredible. I definitely think that that's, I feel like it's fair to say that a lot of self publishing is not necessarily luck, but just the way things fall into place. Like the fact that you had the anthology that you did with Serena and then You know, people liked the epilogue, and it just kind of led to one idea, to one idea, to another idea, and then here you are now, self publishing. Yeah, and I think it was, uh, like, having ten authors do a series over three years, like, the spreadsheets, the back and forth, but you got to know these people, and, um, that's how I got into the Facebook group, and, you know, was sort of a little more active there, and, yeah, it's, it's all kind of, you know, it's been rolling along, so, um, Um, it's kind of like if this is right now, hockey romance is hot. I have a chance to sort of get a step up. So I'm going to do that. And I still have a three book series with a small publisher that I've sort of been leaving off to the side to focus on the hockey for now. Wow. Well, you have a lot, a lot of books on your plate, I feel like, and a lot of ideas to simmering in your brain. I know. I don't, you probably find the same thing when you're writing along and. To make the other characters in the book like real people, you sort of imagine their whole story. And as they're doing stuff, and you're sort of giving them a voice like, you know, I have these hockey players that are joking around in a group. And it's like, you sort of get to know them. And then it's like, oh, they need a story too. And then you start thinking of that. I do do that, but I have to, I have to bring myself to it. And center myself because I will just keep going on and I'll never finish what I'm working on. So I, I have to, I kind of put it in aside in one sense. Like I think what I absolutely need to do for that character, for that book. And I put the rest of it aside because if I do, if I dwell on it, I'm going to want to write their story instead of the one that I'm currently on. Uh, so it's a little bit more of a streamlining thing for me, but I think, but I do know. But like if you're, if you know them, then as they're in your other books, you're developing them for when they finally get their shot and, and even if they don't get a full book, like you could do a short story, a bonus thing for, for your newsletter people or something or stick it in an anthology like there's. I have another idea for an anthology with the hockey thing, but I'm kind of afraid to mention it to anybody because they're going to be, Oh, good idea, Kim. And it's like, wait, I just learned how to do a book club. I don't know how to do an anthology. So tell me what you think of this. I was imagining that I heard something that they were saying that like Christmas, there's so many, there's, I think, three or four hockey anthologies out there. What about a Halloween one? But, you tell the author, it's going to be about a Halloween party, each story, like, they don't have to over connect or overlap, they just have to have a Halloween party in their short story, and hockey related, but you give them the trope and the Halloween costume, like, or have the readers vote on it. So they get, they have their hockey team, whichever level they're playing at, you maybe give them a position So here's the position they play, their Halloween costume, and this is the trope you have to bring in, whether it's second chance or, you know, brother or best friend, sister or secret baby or whatever, and, uh, see what they come up with. I mean, I don't really know anything about hockey at all. I think anything that is new and, and, um, fresh is always going to be. Really, um, sought after, um, because I think a lot of people are kind of getting burnt out on the not necessarily same old, same old, um, but kind of, kind of in that vein, um, people are getting burnt out on that readers and authors. So I think whenever you have something fresh or new, I think that would be incredible. So. I guess to my listeners, um, Kim is actively actively considering and, um, yeah, so maybe you might want to think about joining her, her Facebook group, which by the way, what is your Facebook group? Um, right now I've just got Kim Finley author. I'm going to need to get a reader group for the hockey series, but, uh, I don't have that at the moment. Um, like what you're in reference to what you were saying, I, I, somebody had posted it. He thought the book of the month clubs. We're sort of overdone and people were getting burnt out at them. And I remember Zoe York saying, she wasn't giving up on the idea, but she would be careful about what she wanted to join. And she was one of the authors who joined, signed up for the club, but because her books are in KU, her hockey books, they couldn't do that because you have to give the, have to have the book. You know, available through book funnel for free for the month, but so that was something just a little bit different. It runs a hockey season. There's two books a month. So yeah, if you can just give it a slightly different twist, I think I agree. I definitely think readers and, and authors are then more apt to, to join in and, and enjoy those types of things a hundred percent. So, yeah. You're actively working on the book that's going to be released in January. And you've already mentioned you have a few more plans. Um, are they all hockey related as well? At the moment, I'm working on a hockey series. I, I'm more of a pantser than a plotter, but I did some sort of plotsing, cause, um, partly to make sure that these characters would be consistent all the way through and to know who they are. I, because I'm an accountant, I did spreadsheets to organize. So I had. Sort of eight books worked out and now, you know, there's these secondary characters who are kind of pushing in wanting a book too, but I have And one of the things my editor suggested was to have an arc for the series not just for each book. So there is The team is going through a you know An arc to something happens in the first book that they have to overcome and it'll take them to the end of the series then So I thought that was good and it's adding a bit more tension and I find now that I'm writing book three I just got the notes back on book two and I need to change a bunch of stuff and it's like oh yeah, now that I've done book, this book three stuff, that has to be pushed back in. Anyways, I'm going to have to, I'm going to start spreading them out, it's a little intense right now but I wanted to get that, the first three launched within the first six months of 2024 if I could. Wow, that is a very fast pace. Yeah, part of it is a gain. It's because of the book of the month club. My book's coming out in May. I get to control that because it's my club. So I wanted to have a book out in January and that book will end up being given out in the club in May. Have the second book out and the third book at least up for pre order so that if people do get invested in this series I can, hopefully, you know, there's enough there to get them hooked while they're waiting for the rest of the series to pop up. We'll see. Very smart. I hope. I hope. And I hope I don't burn out in the meantime. But, after the first three books, yeah, it is slowing down, trying to do that. Do you have a Do you have a rough idea of how slow you want to do it or how fast or you just given set number of books? I'm thinking maybe four books a year. I could do like three in the hockey series and one other something a little different. And I've also got a couple other sort of offshoots of the hockey series if that one keeps, you know, if, if people like that and want more of that, but I have more ideas in time. So I'm not so much worried about having enough ideas. I'll just suddenly wake up in the night and not be able to get back to sleep because my brain keeps, you know, going through another idea. And you do this full time, correct? Mostly full time now. I'm doing a little bit of accounting, uh, but since we have, you know, done our lifestyle change, I'm giving this a shot, um, so for the next few months anyways, as I get these first three books out, it should be mostly full time. Yeah. Otherwise, I'm not sure how you keep that up. Well, real quick, because some of the listeners may not have known, what, what was your lifestyle and how has it changed? Um, I am a CPA and I was running my own business, um, out of my house, actually. And it was in the film and entertainment side of accounting. Um, Toronto has a lot of film production and that's where we lived. We had started sailing as a hobby and my husband Goes all out when he does something like that. So he suggested we do cruising. And it's like, oh, so we're gonna live on a boat and travel all the time. And it's the carrot he dangled to see if I'd do it. It was like, well then you could give up accounting and do writing, you know, for doing this. Um, so we actually left Toronto in August of 2018 on the boat we had there, which was not really an ocean cruising boat, but we were going to give it a test year. Our kids, who had just finished university, stayed at the house with their dog, so they had like a four bedroom house for cheap to, to stay in, and we gave it a try, and we left in August, and the following April, we went back, we sold that boat, sold the house, bought Catamaran in Panama in the next August, and Until June, we lived on a boat and we, um, we've just now moved to land. My husband's, uh, got a yacht brokerage office here, so we're going to, and, and we're now officially residents of St. Martin, so that's where we're, we're headquartered for a little bit. We'll, we'll see. Well, since you're doing CPA now a little bit more. Is that going to cut into your writing time or are you just going to try to add it in? Um, one of the things I found when I first started, uh, branching out onto my own, and you don't want to turn down work, right, when you're self employed. Um, so I was taking on a work, all the work I could, and I was working evenings and weekends. I actually got bursitis in my shoulder from too much accounting, you know, keypad, number pad, mouse, doing this enough, but I could do it. But I find with writing, there comes a point where my brain's just like, done, that's it. If I'm editing, it's just like, yeah, fine, fine, fine, like you have to stop. So I'm doing like an hour or two of accounting a day and it, it's a break and it sort of fits in. And kind of just, yeah, gives you a moment to re, refill your creative well. And you know when it's right, like you reconcile your bank, the difference is zero, you got it. I, I cannot go back over anything I've written without trying to fix it. So like, it's never. Reconcile. Yeah. Yeah. That can be tough. I'm not a math person by any means, but I can, I could see the logic of that. Yeah. Like ABC, it comes out to the end. If you've done everything right, there is one right answer. And that's a nice change. Like it was nice. I love writing. I'm very, I think I am creative. I think of ideas, but sometimes it's nice to know, no, I've got this right. It's not like, Oh, validation. Yes, validation is so, uh, I don't want to say it's important because it really isn't. It shouldn't be. It depends. We crave that. I think in others, are you writing just for yourself or you're writing for others? And I mean, there's part of, it's for yourself, but you also, I, if you're, um, you write for yourself, but I think you also write for others or else you wouldn't be publishing it, you wouldn't be putting it out there. So, Mm-Hmm, And the thing is, it is a learning thing. Like you, just because you write it and create it doesn't mean it's perfect or Right. It can be, it can improve. So that outside validation, even in writing that, you know, when you're. Depending on whose it is, and you could say like you're compromising, but the thing is like if you're trying to reach people and maybe move them with your story, finding out that it works, that's a kind of validation, but it also tells you like your, maybe your craft is getting better and you're doing that. So you've been doing this a while now, obviously, what, how do you, um, tell the difference between validation like that? And the fact that, uh, reading is so subjective. I don't think there's one perfect answer, but I have shared with you guys. A horrible edit experience I have had that was not validating. That was frustrating and irritating and it just made me want to pull apart what they did. And I've shared some of it with you. I don't think this is me being a diva and I've talked to other people. This is not how an edit supposed to go. Um, with the edits I've been getting for the, for this hockey series, like it can sometimes kind of hit hard, like, Oh, but then like, So I've gone through the development edits with one or editor and then going to the copy edits and When you get like, oh, I like the way this is going or way that went and you know Some of that came from the development edits that you changed. It's like, okay So this is making it better and one thing too that I think to know like as far as edits These editors are like this is your story. This is what I think you take with it You know, you can take what you want. Whereas the the horrible ones it was just Um, and I'm just rewriting and changing things without any of my input. Um, but I guess it's kind of, you base the value of it partly on who it's coming from, right? If it's somebody who you trust to know what they're doing and partly how you feel. Like, do you feel like, like one thing on this second book that came back and she was for the development said, I think this was a mistake, this happening here. And it's like, I didn't really want the story to go that way, but I thought I had to. I had to, I thought I had to get that sex in there earlier, so I sort of shoved it in because I thought I should. And when she came back and said, no, I think this is more the slow burn. And it's like, that was my initial feeling. So you know, I didn't trust it, but maybe I should have. And I, so I'm going to make that change because it's what I had wanted to do at the beginning. But, anytime somebody, you know, likes what you've done, I guess maybe part of the thing is that that validates you, and maybe sometimes you have to step back and say, am I just liking that because, you know, it makes me feel good, is, is it, and I think that's one of the things with writing, uh, when you get feedback to, to know how to take it, I don't know if there's a perfect answer. Yeah. I mean, there, there definitely isn't, and I think it would be different for every person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um. So real quick, um, before we wrap up, did you want to tell where readers can find you or what you would like to be, like, where would you like to be reached or where can you be reached? Um, I have a website, www. kimfinley. ca, hit CA because I'm Canadian, and that has the links for my books. And if you sign up for my newsletter. Um, because for Harlequin, I wrote sweet books and my others are not sweet. Um, I actually allow people, every now and then there's a survey in my newsletter, so you can pick if you want just the sweet newsletter that comes out in the middle of the month, or the one with the spicier books at the end of the month. So you can kind of get what you want, but that, that, um, keeps up with me. And also from there, you'd be able to find out I'm on Facebook and, uh, Instagram, and I'm on Blue Sky, which is where I've gone from Twitter because Twitter's just not what it used to be. And my editors are, are on, uh, Blue Sky and seems like a, so far a good place. All right. And then, um, the one other thing I wanted to ask you to close out is if you had to give, Not a piece of advice, but if you had to tell someone not to do something, what would it be? I would say based on a particular, my particular experience, don't rush to sign a deal with either an agent or a publisher. My first agent, um, I had a two book deal with Harlequin. So I think she just assumed it would be great. But then when I started dealing with her, she didn't really like my stories. I don't think she had invested in that. And it's fine, I mean, but then it was very deflating to get that message. And with the one small publisher, probably there were some warning signs, but I figured, ah, this is a story that's not going anywhere, maybe they'll do anything. And now I'm going through these horrible edits. So, um, it's, you want the agent, you want the books published. But, maybe sit for a minute and know that it's nice that somebody wants you. But, um, do more research than I did. So that you can find out whether this is going to be a pleasant, uh, relationship or not. That's great. That's actually It's hard, though, because you want to say, Oh, I've got an agent. Oh, I've got a deal. And, um, people tell you that, you know, the bad one is worse. But it's hard to imagine. But, yeah, it can Even if you get your books out there and stuff, or whatever, it's just that sometimes it can really make you second guess yourself. So, I mean, you're already doing that if you don't get a deal, so, but yeah, um, do take your time. Do your research. Find a community where you can find people who will help you to evaluate that decision before you sign. That's awesome. Kim, thank you so much for joining me on my very first episode. Um, I, I so appreciate your time. Well, I feel so special that'll, that's my validation for today. Thank you again. Okay. Thanks Liv. This segment is for industry information. And I'll preface this with, this has been my path. And everyone's path is different. Every week I'd like to share. Information on either things that I have done or things that have learned. Or resources I've found on the internet. And. This week I would like to discuss. The. Idea of multiple paths. I have had multiple interviews with people this week that I have recorded for future podcasts episodes. And. The thing that keeps coming back, the, the recurring theme is. That everyone's path is different. Every author is different. Every book is different. And that is. So incredibly true. On literally every facet of the publishing. Industry. It doesn't matter if it's your cover. Or your marketing or, uh, how you even write a story, whether you, you plot or you pants it. And. That is one of the key things that I think. Is very hard for new authors to wrap their. Heads around. There is no one way of doing something. There is no formula. You can follow. There is no guaranteed. If you do it this way. This is going to happen and you'll sell lots of books and you'll become. An overnight sensation it. Does not exist. And. I don't want to. Say things over and over, but it is consistently a theme. We have to, as authors. Truly understand. That. We have so many options. And we can do any one of them. And what works for me may not work for you may not work for someone else. And once we actually grasp that. And realize it's okay. To do things the way. Feels right or better, or. Consistent with our brand or whatever you have that. Validates. Your opinion on the way to publishing. Then we are golden. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to follow me, my handle on all social media platforms is Liv Macy Author. You can also sign up for my newsletter at livmacy. com to stay up to date on things like new releases of the Right to Read podcast. This is the end of a page in my author life.